Enneagram Mini-Series: Head Center, Enneagram Numbers 5, 6 and 7 with Jackie Coban, Part 3 of 5 | Episode 36

Enneagram Mini-Series: Head Center, Enneagram Numbers 5,6 and 7 with Jackie Coban, Part 3 of 5 | Episode 36

Are you an enneagram number that is part of the head center? Do you have family or loved ones that are types 5, 6, or 7s that you would like to learn about to understand them better? How do these numbers cope with fear and joy in their lives?

In this podcast episode, Billy and Brandy Eldridge speak with Jackie Coban about the Head Center: Enneagram Numbers 5,6 and 7

Meet Jackie Coban

Jackie Coban is an Enneagram & Life Coach: Episode 14

Jackie is a triple-certified coach in Life Coaching, Enneagram Coaching, and Neurolinguistic Programming. She is the founder of Table For 9 Coaching and the host of the Table for 9 podcast. She is a quick-witted, passionate, fire-cracker woman whose personal philosophy is that it IS possible to see people win in life, love, and work.

Jackie is a coach who works with various individuals and groups to help them embrace who they are and what they bring to the table, no pun intended. She is well-balanced in where she has worked: law offices, anti-sex trafficking movements, the non-profit sector, human resources, finance, and the like. She had one thing in common in all places: the pull to “make it work” for everyone. After leading 5+ teams simultaneously at a non-profit organization, she realized what everyone brought to the table was truly different and equally valuable, and she wanted other people to see it, too.

Visit Jackie’s website and connect on Instagram. Listen to her podcast here.

In This Podcast

Summary

  • Head center
  • Type 5: The Theorist
  • Type 6: The Loyal Skeptic
  • Type 7: The Enthusiast

Heard center

People who have their enneagram numbers in the head center analyses and rationalize information in a way that places focus on security, safety, and keeping options open.

This triad, this center of intelligence, usually struggles with anxiety and really works for security in their own way. (Jackie Coban)

Type 5: The Theorist

They are highly intelligent, deep-researching people. They do not react, they respond. They are fact-based and highly cerebral people.

  • Typical goals of Type 5’s are to gain knowledge and preserve energy. This may make it look like they are introverts or have social anxiety, and sometimes they do, but for the most part, they collect information so as to not feel foolish or be made the fool for not knowing something.
  • Due to their thinking-intensive nature, they can be suspicious of constructs and of people but they are always looking for answers.

Another aspect of Type 5’s is that they are incredibly emotionally detached however they do have a huge capacity and depth for emotions and are sensitive people. They can be moody at times, although their emotions do not have such stringent control over their perception since they strive to be fact-based people.

Everything Type 5’s do stems from wanting to preserve energy:

  • They ration their energy from the very start of the day and place boundaries around their energy and do not allow many interruptions. Type 5s are very good at honoring boundaries, both yours and theirs.
  • Knowledge takes up less energy than feelings, therefore knowledge is the route they often turn to.

Type 5’s deal with their fear through acquiring knowledge.

Type 6: The Loyal Skeptic

They have a strong need for order and consistency. They can be misunderstood as negative or against your plans, but they rather try to ring the alarm on possibly difficult things because they love us.

They are similar to guardians, like lighthouses, and they experience anxiety and fret about what could go wrong as a way to protect their loved ones.

Type 6’s thinking needs to be managed, not discounted. They have the capacity to be one of the bravest on the enneagram because they manage day-to-day activities while thinking about all the worst-case scenarios. Do not do things without thinking, but do not take the leap either.

  • They can be calm in times of crisis, however, they withhold a lot of stress. They often experience back pain, neck pain or migraines from holding fret in their bodies and not communicating their worries and struggles to those around them.

Type 6’s deal with their fear by planning.

Type 7: The Enthusiast

Type 7’s are positive, upbeat, and enjoy life fully. They are great spin doctors; they know how to turn a negative situation into a positive one. They are not impulsive, but they are calculated, quick thinkers.

They are known for the need to avoid their own emotional pain:

  • When it comes to unpleasant emotions, they have a deep capacity for feeling them but they consider interacting with their negative emotions as a trap door to dealing with everything else that bothers them.
  • Therefore, they may be labeled as flighty, because they jump from a good thing to the next and try to avoid the unpleasant bumps.
  • We cannot go that long without coming face to face with our pain.
  • Type 7’s are often labeled as having commitment issues, but they are incredibly loyal once they have made their partner choices.

Type 7’s deal with their fear through optimism. Facing your pain and being trapped in it are not the same thing. It is alright to experience fear when considering talking about something difficult, but you can still do it.

Let Jackie know that you heard her on this podcast and get a $30 discount on your first consult.

Are you ready to find the freedom to be yourself as a beta male? Do you want permission and tools to be your best beta? Are you ready to join the revolution to find strength as a beta? If you want to be comfortable in your skin and be the most authentic beta male, then our free beta revolution course is for you. Sign up for free.

Useful links:

Meet Billy Eldridge

billy-eldridge

Meet Billy, the resident beta male. For Billy, this is a place to hang out with other beta males and the people who love them. We’re redefining what beta males look like in the world. I have learned to embrace my best beta self, and I can help you to do the same. As a therapist, I understand the need to belong. You belong here. Join the REVOLUTION.

 

Meet Brandy Eldridge

brandy-eldridge

Hello, Beta friends. I am an alpha personality who is embracing the beta way of life. I feel alive when connected with people, whether that is listening to their stories or learning about their passions. Forget small talk, let’s go deep together. Come to the table and let’s have some life-changing conversations.

 

Thanks for listening!

Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of the Beta Male Revolution Podcast on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[BILLY]:
Beta Male Revolution is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts seeking to change the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Imperfect Thriving, or Empowered and Unapologetic, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Merry Christmas, Beta Male Revolution, this is our gift to you, this series on the enneagram with Jackie Coban. A Christmas gift you could get back to us would be rating and reviewing on Apple iTunes, you see how I did that, that little thing there? It just helps us out a little bit in promoting the podcast if, if you feel so inclined. Also, if you’re looking for counseling services, the holidays can be a tough time, as much as they can be a wonderful time. If you’re looking for counseling services, that’s something I do offer in my day job through Olive Tree Counseling, at olivetreetxk.com. I am licensed in three states so I can do therapy and teletherapy through those states and outside areas, we have developed quite a network of people we work with and we connect others with, so reach out to us.

Also, Jackie has a gift for us, $30 off an individual typing session. Now even if you already know your type on the enneagram it helps to get with an individual and take a deep dive and looking into your internal workings. And so there’s nothing quite like figuring out your number and going deeper with your number with another live human being. The tests are great but I’m just gonna have to say they come in second to working with an individual who’s committed and devoted their life to understanding the enneagram. So reach out to Jackie and get that $30 off. And here we go.

[BILLY]:
Have yourself a merry little Christmas. Brandy is rolling her eyes because I just sang. Merry Christmas, Beta Male Revolution. We’re back with Jackie. What’s up, Jackie?

[JACKIE]:
Hi, Merry Christmas.

[BRANDY]:
I’m excited about this one. But I’m also afraid because I don’t want to know the bad things about me because I just want to hear the good things about me. But I know that we’re gonna get into seven, but we’re also going to get into the other numbers that matter as well. So.

[BILLY]:
Shakespeare says nothing is either good or bad. Just thinking makes it so.

[BRANDY]:
Right.

[JACKIE]:
Okay, [unclear].

[BRANDY]:
Excuse us. I don’t know where he pulled that one out of, but okay.

[BILLY]:
You said bad. Nothing’s bad.

[BRANDY]:
Okay. All right.

[JACKIE]:
I agree. There’s nothing bad about any of the types, we have things that we need to manage and deal with, but nothing’s bad.

[BRANDY]:
I know that spin, it’s just about stretches. It’s all about strengths and stretches, where are some of the stretches?

[JACKIE]:
Okay, but I am [unclear].

[BILLY]:
We’re gonna offer you some growth opportunities today, Brandy.

[BRANDY]:
Thank you. Thank you. I’m sure there’s a lot of people out there with their list of places I need to grow in. They’re getting ready to hear it.

[JACKIE]:
So if you want, I’ll recap really quick what a center of intelligence is just in case you didn’t listen to the last one.

[BILLY]:
Yeah.

[JACKIE]:
So essentially, when I talk to people about their enneagram types, one of the places I like to start is the centers of intelligence, which is either the head, the heart or the gut, or I like to call the instinct center. So in the last episode, we went over the heart and all of the heart types, which are two, three, and four. But a center of intelligence really is just the place that is your mind. So your brain is your brain, does all that fun thinking for you. But your center of intelligence is that secondary mind, it’s how you perceive and give information. It’s how you hear stories, it’s really the most forward thing about you. It’s kind of like a forward attribute. So that is that fun little recap, and today we’re going to talk about the head center, which is the five, the six and the seven.

But before I go into those types, just a little background on the head center, which kind of I know a lot of people get a little confused, because it’s like, so my brain is my brain, and my brain is my mind. And I’m like, yeah, basically, they typically rely on perceiving, thinking, analyzing, rationalizing information in a way that focuses on security and safety, and options, lots of options. And so this triad, this center of intelligence usually struggles with anxiety and really works for security in their own way. And we’re going to see through the five, the six and the seven, the different ways that each type struggles with anxiety, and each type works for what they would consider security. So security is security, whether, regardless of your type, it looks different, but it’s still what they’re striving for there. And then at the end of each type, as usual, we’ll talk about the center that each type actually represses because every type represses a certain center.

[BRANDY]:
Okay, let’s do it.

[BILLY]:
Let’s do this.

[JACKIE]:
Let’s do this. Okay, we’re gonna start, I hope I’m not like hanging you over a cliff because the seven is gonna be the last one.

[BRANDY]:
No. And you know, I’m just here to learn, like, I don’t want this to be about me. I don’t want to, I mean, internally, I’ll be thinking about it the whole time and like rationalizing. But during this time, it’s really about our listeners who are trying to find out where they think they may be. And then hopefully, if they get close to it or need more help, I mean, you’re a great person, a great coach, and hopefully they utilize your services because there’s nobody I’d want to go through this with more than you.

[JACKIE]:
Thank you. You’re so sweet. I want to hug you really bad, but you’re so far away.

[BILLY]:
We will one day, we will one day.

[JACKIE]:
Yes. Okay, so let’s talk about the enneagram five who is the investigator, the observer, the theorist, I think theorist is the most accurate, I think of all of the nine enneagram types and names, like the theorist works best for the five. So if you want somebody in your life, who kind of knows a little bit about everything, and everything about everything, you kind of need a five in your life. They are super intelligent, like, I’m not just, they’re smart, like no, they’re like highly intelligent. It’s like, no matter what they do for a living, they are incredible observers and watchers, they are straight up, they’re going to tell you straight up because they’re fact based people. And we’re going to go into a little bit about why that is. So they really don’t react, they respond. They may react in their anger, they may react the healthier they get. But they typically just respond matter of factly. And so if you’re looking for someone to match your energy level when you’re crying and screaming, it’s not going to happen. They are highly cerebral people. So if you ask them what they’re feeling, they might tell you what they’re thinking or what’s going on in their heads because that is the first, that is their center of intelligence.

So one of the goals of a five is typically to obtain knowledge and preserve energy. It makes them perhaps look like loners, make them look antisocial, make them look like they have social anxiety. And sometimes they do, sometimes they do. But for the most part, they collect information so they don’t appear foolish. And we’ll talk about that it’s kind of a little dual sided there. They can be compartmentalised. I actually heard this story of someone, a loved one going to one of their beloved’s funeral and they were an enneagram five and was walking around and was like, I don’t know any of these people. Chess club over here, Golf club over here, Mechanics club over here. And really just was like, this person really compartmentalised everything they did, where, you know, if you are perhaps like a two or an enneagram seven, like your lines bleed, like meet my friend here, meet my cousin here, meet, I have to connect these two people. Fives are like nope, everything separate, everything in it’s perfect little bin.

So they, the type five, because they’re such thinkers, they can be suspicious of constructs, suspicious of people for different reasons. But they’re always looking for answers, which is such a beautiful thing about them. So one of the things about the five that really I want to focus on because of the head center is that they are really emotionally detached, like the most emotionally detached of all of the types, but they have a huge depth and capacity for emotion and they’re very sensitive, like they might not be emotional, but they’re sensitive and sometimes they can be moody. So they, you know, you might fight with them and you get nothing from them and then four hours later they’re sobbing in the shower. So like I said before, I said this in the last episode, I kind of made a joke about it, but I was like fives are kind of just there, are just kind of there, but they really exist when you don’t see them. But when you see them, they’re kind of just there.

[BRANDY]:
They’re an enigma.

[JACKIE]:
An enigma. Yes, exactly.

[BRANDY]:
That’s Billy’s word for one of our friends who we think is a five but we’ll not…

[BILLY]:
We’ll not type him.

[BRANDY]:
We’ll not, we won’t type him and he decided he’s not going to type either.

[BILLY]:
I don’t need this stuff. He’s suspicious of all this. But also if I want some information, let’s say on COVID, he’s a doctor and smart guy, I’m gonna go to him because I’m not gonna get all the political stuff surrounding it. I’m just going to get the facts.

[JACKIE]:
Exactly.

[BILLY]:
You know, here’s what the CDC says, here’s where the numbers are, here’s what you need to do to protect yourself, and I’m not going to get some other information. I don’t know if I’m wrong there, if I’m giving, you know, the right kind of feel.

[JACKIE]:
No, that’s exactly it. Like, I always tell people if you are deciding between two computer monitors, two different cars, whether or not your favorite DJ used to be in a screamo band like let your five do the research for you because they’re going to come back with the answers. Even though my partner is not like a business person, when I wanted to start my business, he was the first part one of the first people I told because I was like I need to hear someone ask me the hard questions that are unbiased. And he delivered.

Let’s talk about energy for a quick second with the five because this is really important. Because sometimes, you know, everyone’s like, I don’t research that much and I’m a five. Let’s talk about energy. Everything they do, and when you hear about like, oh, they’re secluded, or they do, everything they do is to preserve their energy, and protect it. So I’ve heard this example before, it’s not my example. But some people like for example, Brandy, being an enneagram seven, I’m just picking on her today, she might wake up with 85% battery, right? She’s a mom, I’m gonna give her that. So she’s, I wake up with 85% battery, I’m ready for the day. I know that probably by the end of the day, I’m going to wind down and be tired. But right now I’m excited. Let’s go, let’s get some coffee. Let’s do this. So if you’re an enneagram five, you might wake up not with better or worse, but just maybe with 45% battery. And you’re like, I need to rationalize this through the day. So even on a biological level too, like, the fives in my life all need naps. And I let them have their naps because they need it. So they’re like, I have to ration this 45% throughout the whole day, I cannot handle this interruption, I cannot handle not having all the information I need. I cannot. So I have to have all the info and the research that I need.

This is also why, and you know, again, that fear of depletion. This is also why they need all that knowledge. Because facts take up less energy than feelings. So if I have facts about this, my energy, my 45% won’t go down that much. So if you’re looking at that fear, it’s two-sided right, it’s, I’m afraid of looking incompetent so I need to have all this knowledge, I’m afraid of looking foolish. But then I’m also afraid of being completely depleted of my energy and knowledge takes up less energy than feelings. Right? So let’s, I want to talk about one of the one of my favorite things about the fives and one of my favorite things about my partner’s, especially as an enneagram two. I’ve been, I got a lot of shit for dating an enneagram five, I will tell you that, they’re like you guys don’t get along. No, like because I mean, let’s be honest, like stereotypically twos, they’re like, let me love you. Let me love you. And then fives are like, can you go away? I’m on the computer, you know what I’m saying? So there’s that stereotype, but they are incredible about creating and honoring boundaries, yours and theirs. Like, if I ever make a decision and then want to, in six months change my mind or go back on a boundary and decide to like, lift it, lift the gate a little, I have to have a conversation with him where he’s like, are you sure? Are you sure? Because they are so good at honoring boundaries. It is one of the most beautiful things about them. And it’s something that I think humans across the board struggle with. So you need a five in your life to help you with your boundaries. That’s the best thing.

But if you feel like you are a type five, I would say there are just some things that you can’t rationalize. And that doesn’t mean you don’t understand them. You just have to rely on something within yourself. Sometimes a five might struggle with self confidence without knowing it. They’re like, no, I love the way I look or I feel healthy. And that’s, that’s fine and good. But when it comes to something that you can’t have information on, like, should I take this job or that one? When everything looks identical. The pay the compensation, you know, the compensation, the travel, all of that stuff? Should I ask this person on the second date? Do I want to marry them? Do I need to pick between two cars that are virtually the same? There are just some things that you have to rely on what’s within you to make that decision. It’s sometimes you have to just go based on what you want. And that’s really hard for a five because that’s not a fact that you can back up with science. So you could be wrong. And that’s really hard.

So actually, for my partner’s birthday, which was a couple of days ago, or excuse me, it was in October, because this is Christmas. I got him air pods and he started crying. And he’s like, you have no money. You have no idea how many times I put this in my cart and took it out because I couldn’t justify it. I couldn’t rationalize it. And I’m like, I’m gonna cry. So it’s just one of those things that really, knowledge is at the forefront of their brain. And it’s not that they want to be emotionally detached. It’s not that they want to be, because they’re very sensitive. It’s just everything they do is to preserve their energy. Everything they do is to make sure they paint a picture. So, you know, the healthier they become, they can compartmentalize that beautifully. They can say, I need a rest. But after this rest, I’m excited to tag along and do what you need to do. I’m really excited. So if I can give a piece of advice for a type five, it would be this: if you are excited, remind your face.

I say that to say, we’re talking about the centers of intelligence in the repressed centers, the type five actually represses their body the most, which can pose a whole host of problems because the enneagram type five, you know, they’re the least likely to go to doctors, they don’t know. Like, I joke about this with my partner all the time, like, he doesn’t know he’s hungry till he’s starving, he doesn’t know he has to pee until he’s about to get a UTI. Like, he doesn’t, like, it’s almost like those extremes. And he’s like, oh, crap, I got to do this. So if you’re excited, remind your face, you can smile, you can show sadness, you can whatever, if you’re, if you’re sad, remind your face, you know, because we don’t pick up on those things. And I always often, you know, I tell my partner and I suggest everyone do the same. I don’t live in your head. Sometimes I need some words and action to remind me. So that’s the five.

[BILLY]:
Well, and when you talk about energy preservation, I sent my friend who may or may not be a five, I sent him this quote the other day because it embodied him. And it’s a quote from Carl Jung. And it says, solitude for me is a fount of healing, which makes my life worth living. Talking is often a torment for me, and I need many days of silence to recover from the futility of words. And he was always, he goes off into the woods and hunts. But he said, it’s more about the reconnecting and recharging. And when I’m at the end, I have to plan a couple of times a year to do this, to recharge, and those were his words, and it was just, that helped me understand him better, because I’m like, why would anybody do that? That sounds crazy. Now it makes sense.

[JACKIE]:
No, absolutely. And it’s really interesting, because like, what you know, you everybody has different conversations when they’re about to get married, different important conversations. And for me, on top of those conversations that we’re having, one of the things was, I want to, maybe not all the time, but I want to entertain, I want to entertain our friends, I want to entertain. And what I started to, you know, have people in our home, and what I started to realize is, they may not have 40 million friends, but they might have 15 lifelong friends, and four really close ones. And they’re consistent, and they’re through their life. And it’s the people who aren’t going to take their energy. He’s best friends with his best friend who they’ve been best friends since college. And like, and I’m pretty sure, I’m not typing him, but I’m pretty sure he’s an enneagram seven. And so he’s full of energy but somehow it doesn’t take my enneagram fives energy. And it’s simply because there’s trust there. And I actually think it has to do with the fact that like, if he says his piece, if he says something on his mind, he’s not going to be pointed out as incompetent or you’re wrong. And it’s not gonna take his energy, it’s not going to give him shame. And so it’s one of those things that I find so interesting, where if you are in the life of a five, if you have been given that, that blessing, that opportunity to be in their inner world, it really is that, it’s a blessing, it is a blessing, because you are one of very few. And you’re gonna notice that their behavior changes over time, because they don’t feel like they have to preserve their energy around you, because you’re not taking it.

[BRANDY]:
It’s funny that all three of the fives we think we know are all doctors.

[JACKIE]:
That’s not funny at all. It’s pretty accurate. I wouldn’t be surprised if you knew an astronaut who’s a five.

[BRANDY]:
That’s even funnier because one of our friends who I think is a five…

[BILLY]:
He applied to NASA. He had the application filled out and he decided to be a doctor instead.

[BRANDY]:
But again, I’m not typing.

[BILLY]:
And he could have been either, but I’m not.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, he may not be. But it’s interesting that the ones we feel tend to be in that category.

[BILLY]:
I love that we have this need to say, you know, I think they are. I’m not typing. [Unclear].

[BRANDY]:
I’m not typing. I wouldn’t do that. I don’t wanna get sued, yeah.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, yeah.

[JACKIE]:
I love that. I think that’s so excellent. And it’s one of the, I mean, I would like to have those options, either a doctor or an astronaut.

[BILLY]:
That was not in the cards for me.

[BRANDY]:
And you know what, he would have been great at both of them and is great at one of them. But he could probably do it on the side and be just as great.

[BILLY]:
He could probably be a doctor in space if he wanted to be.

[JACKIE]:
I love that. Yeah, you guys ready for six?

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, and this is the one I probably know the least about. Or the one I understand the least.

[BILLY]:
Poor six, getting left out.

[JACKIE]:
Oh. Poor thing. We love sixes. I love sixes. I have a lot of sixes in my life. And it’s the best. I have a lot of each type in my life actually. But okay, so, for the enneagram type six, if you have a friend that you feel like you have to kind of prepare a speech like when you go to them with a new idea or a new like, you know, this is exciting in my life, like and you have to prepare like an attorney to talk to them about it just in case they say something, like maybe your mom, I don’t know, but uh, they might be an enneagram six, and I like to refer to them as the human version of an underground bunker. They have a strong need for security and consistency, order, plans, rules, predictability, these are all really important things for them. And so being skeptical kind of comes with the package. They’re skeptical at first, but if you earn their trust, they’re with you for life which earns them the nickname the loyalist. I do like the nickname the guardian better, but we’ll get into that. So they can be misunderstood as really negative or against your plans and they’re usually not. It’s really just because they kind of live with notions of concern and like this needs a contingency plan, the what-if, or you’ll notice they start to, they start sentences with like, I’m just worried that, or I’m just concerned about blah, blah, blah, or just my only thought is this. And it’s simply like this, because they love us they ring the alarm. It’s not pessimism. It’s thoughtful. Because they love us they ring the alarm.

So they kind of live in code yellow all the time. And when I say this statement, this is when people start crying in trainings, because it’s the one that makes the most sense. It’s like, I’m not a scaredy cat but I’m not like, the most brave person I’ve ever met. It’s like, it’s like Mulan, right? Mulan, she lived in code yellow. And then she was like, I have to do this. I have to protect my family. They are really hyper aware of what could possibly go wrong. So we’re going to talk about the type one in the next episode. But we’re going to talk about the fact that the type one has an inner critic, the type six has a little bit like an inner committee. Have you ever seen Inside Out?

[BRANDY]:
Yes.

[JACKIE]:
So the movie where, yeah, like so it’s mom’s head, dad’s head, the daughter’s head and there’s all these emotions, fear, anger. And so like, you know, Joy is like, alright, first day of school, first day of school and then discusses, like, look at their outfits. And then Fear is like, okay, I’ve compiled a list of all the things that could go wrong, quicksand, or the teacher calling on us on the first day, like, it’s all these different things, or it’s kind of like parliament, right? So one person stands up, says something, and then sits back down, and then everybody else stands up all at the same time, starts shouting at each other. That’s literally what’s going on in a six’s head. So yeah, and that’s the thing, like, you have to think some people are wired to think that, okay, disaster could strike at any moment. And disaster could be a hurricane, or that we’re 30 minutes late to dinner, no in between. So it’s just simply something that wasn’t planned for.

So I have this story that I think encompasses the six as well. And I want to cuz I want to point it back to how much they love us like they ring the alarm because they love us. And I heard this story once of a group of, I think zookeepers or zoologists, and they went to the wild. And they found a group of chimpanzees, like a family of chimpanzees. And they were all really healthy, thriving in their nests, like families, babies, all of that stuff. And there were like six or seven on the outside of the group, that weren’t really within the group, interacting, and they seemed anxious, they seemed unhealthy, they seemed a little bit more sickly and thin. And they were kind of just like, running around the outside and just being erratic. And so these zoologists are like, these chimpanzees are ill. So they took them back into their care, these six or seven, fed them, let them rest, they slept a lot and brought them back into the wild after about a week or so. And when they came back, they realized a lot of that camp, those nests had, the chimpanzees had either been killed or scattered, and ran away. And what they ended up realizing were these six or seven on the outside, who were sickly and anxious and running around, were the guardians of the whole group. And without them, the whole group fell apart. And I think that story of all the stories I’ve heard, of all the anecdotes I’ve heard, describes the sixes the most. They’re anxious, and sometimes on the outside, but it’s because they love you and they’re watching and without them. They’re like, gathering posts, they’re like lighthouses, like, without them, they can all fall apart. They’re the people we need in our lives in that way.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, well, that helps me understand. Because seeing that coming from a place of love and warning, I’m just thinking of people right now who I constantly get updates on, you know, riots and COVID numbers and different things going on in the world. And I think, man, how scary of a place must the world be right now for them? And they’re sounding the alarm, saying, hey, the world is not okay. There’s a lot of bad stuff happening. And I want you to know about it, too. And that’s not like, oh, here’s another negative article from so and so. They’re trying to say, hey, I want you to be okay too.

[JACKIE]:
Absolutely, that’s the thing. We have to work really hard because we can’t imagine the things that they think. Like I have a friend who’s a six and she is just the most wonderful person who’s ever lived, I think, like, oh my god, I can’t even describe, but she was having a fight with one of her friends. Like kind of they had a rocky year. And on New Year’s Eve, everything just seemed to be like fine, and they had finally made up and she said to me, she’s like, I just I can’t imagine that after like, she’s like, I just can’t help but think, like, he’s gonna drive somewhere and get hit by a drunk driver. I’m like, what? Like, where’d you pull that out of? But I can’t discount like, I can’t discount the way they think like, I always tell my people who love sixes, worst case scenario thinking needs to be managed, not discounted. Right? So like, what’s the possibility of that happening? I like to ask people, or let them know there’s very little from what you actually need to be protected.

So let’s unpack this. Because I think that they have the capacity to be the bravest type on the enneagram. And a lot of people look at me like I’m batshit insane when I say that. But like, imagine thinking the way they think and having to just wake up and do everything that we have to do in a day, make decisions, get in a car, drive somewhere, sit in a job, say yes to a second date, all of those different things that we have to do without thinking through worst case scenarios at all times. And they still do it. And we don’t even know that they’re sixes half the time. I think they have this capacity to be brave. And I always tell the sixes that I love that your fear, all the things that you fear, are just a malformation of the truth, like courage doesn’t mean that you’re not afraid, it just, you just do it anyway. You know, we don’t want you to jump right in and to just do things without thinking, but eventually jump.

So I want to talk about the center of intelligence, and the repressed center for this one, because like I said, in the last episode, there is this thing called anchor points. Anchor points mean that they are at the center of their center of intelligence, and they don’t have a wing outside their center. So just really quick to backtrack, a wing is the number is the number to the left and to the right of your type. That’s it, it’s not across or anywhere else, it’s just left or right. And the six is smack dab in the middle of the head center. So five on one side and seven on the other. That means that they don’t have a wing outside their center, and they repress their own head. So you might think, okay, so this guy’s in the head center, and they’re thinking irrational thoughts, like what if they just randomly get hit by a car on New Year’s Eve, they repress their own thinking, because they are one of the anchor points. They’re in that center of intelligence so deeply that it terrifies them. And they repress it.

[BRANDY]:
So they may be going crazy on the inside, and full of all these fears, but on the outside, they’re gonna say something like, everything’s fine, or how are you guys doing? And everything’s gonna be okay. But on the inside, they’re like, could be all over the place.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. They’re very calm in times of crisis. They’re one of those people that like, is strangely calm and then two weeks later, will have a breakdown. I also know a lot of sixes and this is obviously not, it’s not in any books, it’s not proven, it’s just from my experience. I know a lot of sixes who get back pain, neck pain, migraines, and they get them early on in life. And it tends to be because if you have to walk through life like that, where like, everything’s fine, I’m okay, but I’m dying on the inside with anxiety for so long, you tend to hold all that fret in your body, and your body remembers everything that you feel. And so I have a six in my life who I’m not super close to, but I know has one that the second they feel like stress or anxiety, their back is gone. They have suffered from migraines so bad that they were pretty much mini seizures. It’s really about holding that fret in your body.

[BILLY]:
Well, they’ve got Parliament going off in their head. The shitty committee is roaring loud.

[JACKIE]:
Yes, exactly. Exactly. It’s, it’s hard. It’s hard. I mean, it’s hard AF to be any enneagram type, you know, and I think it’s important that we can still like, I look at different types and I’m like, I don’t know how people live life like this, you know, and people look at twos and I don’t know how you live life like this. But it’s hard to be any enneagram type. And it’s so important that we have a shit ton of compassion for people because we have no idea what it’s like to be them, like no idea. I don’t care if your husband, your boyfriend, your cousin, your mom’s hairdresser. I don’t care if you know an enneagram type like that. You don’t know what’s going on in anyone’s head at any time.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, well, we’re all in this boat together and we all need each other.

[BRANDY]:
Oh, yeah.

[BILLY]:
And I think that’s what the enneagram teaches me because each number embodies something that I don’t do well or don’t know how to express well, and they teach me. But when I’m not healthy, they just get on my nerves.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, that’s fair. Brandy, you ready?

[BRANDY]:
I’m just listening today. I’m trying to just listen.

[JACKIE]:
Alright, cuz we love Brandy. We love our sevens, and we’re gonna go into seven now.

[BILLY]:
All right.

[JACKIE]:
Okay. So I always tell people like our numbers cannot change, you are one enneagram type for life, either the healthy or the unhealthy version of it. But if our numbers could change, I would want to be a seven. Because, I mean, I always say like, I want to be a seven when I grow up, lots of jokes about sevens in the best way, like the bottom of their feet never wrinkles because they don’t touch the ground, they’re always flying. They’re the Peter Pan of the enneagram. Like it’s, I love my sevens, I have a lot of sevens in my life, who are my whole heart, and I don’t know what life would be like without them. They have, they’re positive, they’re upbeat, they have a lot of energy. And they have this like, boundless love for life. They are always on the lookout for what could come next in terms of fun, in terms of the next adventure, in terms of something cool. They are really great spin doctors. So they’re going to take a really crappy situation and look at the bright side, find the bright side every single time and they can talk their way out of anything. So if you get pulled over, make sure you have a seven in your car, they’ll talk you out of the ticket, like really fast.

[BRANDY]:
I’ve never had a ticket.

[JACKIE]:
There we go, case in point.

[BILLY]:
I’ve had like eight in the last year. Cuz I say, it’s my fault. I deserved it. Go ahead and give it to me.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, right. Also like, women tend to get less tickets than men.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah. Also, I do recognize my white privilege in that as well.

[JACKIE]:
It’s funny, I was driving home for my partner’s one time and I had like, expired for a year plates on my car because I just kept forgetting to change them. And I got pulled over. And then like the cop called for backup and I was like, that’s it, I’m getting arrested. No, they just took the plates off and did it for me. And my partner was like, yeah, if you were a man, you would have been arrested for that. So anyways, so I know a lot of times, we might look at the map or the stereotype of the seven and think that they’re crazy. But they’re not. It’s like a calculated impulsive. They’re not foolish, they are calculated, but they’re very quick thinkers. So there’s like that, it’s not like, I’m just gonna jump off a cliff. It’s like, okay, this cliff doesn’t look that high. I feel like if I hit the water just like this [unclear], it’s like this calculated impulsive, like, alright, screw it, nothing’s stopping me, let’s just do it. This is what is good at making them good at happy, they are known for a need to avoid their own pain. And I’m not talking about like, I’m not gonna run a mile cuz I might scrape my knee pain, I’m talking about deep emotional pain. And when I say this to sevens, they’re like, I’m not afraid. I’m not afraid to cry in a movie [unclear]. And there’s a lot more to it. But when it comes to unpleasant emotions, they have a huge depth for capacity of feeling. And they almost feel like and I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth, but I find that they almost feel like if I deal with this unpleasant emotion, it’s a trap door. It is a trap door. It’s like opening a can of whoop-ass on myself. If I deal with this, then I have to deal with that, if I deal with that I have to deal with this. And if I have to deal with this, if I have to sit across this couch from a therapist and talk about my breakup, then I’m going to have to talk about my dad. And it’s it’s that whole, underlying, you know, it’s like a trap door. It’s like a full time work of hiding their pain. And because of that, why wouldn’t I want to devour one fun experience to the next, if I can keep going, if I don’t have to stop. If I don’t have to land on the lilypad. If I can go from if I can jump from rock to rock to rock to rock, I can go from one adventure to the next, I don’t have to stop long enough to think about what’s really going on.

In other words, and words I don’t like to use, but just to make it easier to understand, flighty. If that makes sense. One of my family members is an enneagram type seven, and I would say a little bit more on the unhealthy side. And there was one year where he traveled to like seven or eight different countries. I don’t know how he finagled all those vacation days. But he was pretty much out of the US, like for the most part of the year. And it was a really hard year for him. And that’s why. And he just didn’t want to stay and deal with it.

[BILLY]:
Well, I think the challenge would be why not avoid pain? It doesn’t feel good. I mean, if I could avoid pain, I would. I wish, like that’s an attractive part of the seven to me. I know, somewhere, when you get deeper, it’s not healthy. But like if I can just feel good all the time, the addict side of me, the old side of me says boy, that sounds fantastic.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that’s, and you have to think about like there’s other enneagram types who are like, I can’t function without dealing with this pain. I can’t just put a smile on my face. And that’s the beautiful difference between all of us. Now, I love my sevens. I love that they help me see the bright side of life. But like, I’ve had to have conversations with my, some of, one of my best friends is a seven. And I literally like I was talking to her about something and she’s like, oh, but, and I just looked at her and I was like, hey, this is the first time I’ve vented about this, you need to let me have this one. And she was like, okay, and I just went for it and I lost my shit. And then she was like, you good? And I was like, I’m good. Let’s go get Olive Garden, you know.

So, but it is one of those things, like some of some people can’t function and I’m going to go ahead and make the broad statement that every, even sevens, humans can’t function without looking face to face with their pain at some point. It’s a really, really beautiful mask. It’s a fun one. Yeah, I want to go to, you know, Europe and Disneyland and Olive Garden all on the same night and you know, also be a seven and do all those things. But we can’t go that long without coming face to face with our pain and sometimes deep emotional pain looks like, you know, trauma is all relative, but like the most traumatic thing you can think of. And sometimes it’s like, my mom left when I was younger, and she took a piece of me with her and I’ve never, I’ve never come back from that. And it just, it looks very different for every person.

And I think a lot of people think that sevens have a hard time with, I hear commitment issues, I’m not dating so and so because he has commitment issues. I think that’s such baloney. Anybody, especially enneagram type sevens, they know that if I commit to this, I’m going to be loyal. If I commit to this, I am saying no to everything else. If I say yes to you, I say no to everything else. It’s not that I have hesitations about saying yes to you, it’s about I want to make sure that I’m making the right decision and that I’m not missing out on anything else that I could possibly want. Now, they might overcommit socially, but they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna do that to a human being. And so sometimes we feel like, I have a friend who’s married to a seven. And she’s like, I felt like he dicked me around before he proposed to me. I was like, nah, he was just trying to see if he was sure.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, I say it’s an honor to be married to a seven. Because Brandy will call those things out in me and she’s like, I chose you. You’re my husband. You’re the only person I get to go to for this. And I’ll take that for granted and think, well, that’s no big deal. But it’s a big deal. And I’m like her person. She picked me out of all the people in the world. And there’s a lot of choices, a lot of shiny things. And I get to be that person.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, you have to have a place of safety with the people in your life to like, you can’t just, not everyone’s an open book. And it’s not that, you know, sevens might be transparent and vulnerable. But that doesn’t mean that like, it’s not that they’re hiding something from you. They’re only hiding from you what they’re hiding from themselves. And so every time I have a client who’s a seven, they always reschedule when we’re about to talk about core fears and childhood. Which is why I learned to not tell people what we’re talking about in the next meeting. That’s how I learned.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, that’s smart.

[JACKIE]:
But it is important. I mean, like, they’re happy go lucky, glass half full, like all of that stuff. And I love that. I need them in my life because I can spiral, man. But I will tell you, it’s really important to remember that sevens are just as good and scared as fives and sixes, like fives deal with their fear by knowledge, right, sixes deal with their fear by planning, by contingency planning, right? And sevens deal with it by optimism. And so when we’re talking about in the last episode, we’re talking about the four, I said to the four, people don’t really know you unless they know you in your joy and your sorrow, and fours lean toward sorrow. So make sure you bring your joy with you. And I’m going to say the opposite for the seven. People don’t know you unless they know you in both your joy and your sorrow. So when you have your joy, bring your sorrow with you, they balance each other out, don’t worry. And I love to tell sevens this, facing your pain and being trapped in it are not the same thing. And it’s okay to have fear of being trapped in your pain. But that doesn’t mean it’s gonna happen. It’s okay to have the fear that it’s gonna be really overwhelming to talk about this for the first time in 30 years. But you can still do it.

I love sevens. They keep me young. They keep me optimistic. They give me the energy I need to get through the things I need to get through. And so it’s important to remember that we want sevens to stay young, stay fun, stay curious, stay loud, it keeps the rest of us honest, honestly, it really does. The last thing I’ll say about the seven is their repressed center is their heart. And they actually, like, it’s funny because every seven I know is very emotional to the pain of others. And I think that’s why they repress it. I remember asking Brandy, whether it was in the podcast episode that you guys were in on my podcast or when I was on yours, but I remember asking her how do you do your job? Because she has a very difficult job that I guess still, I forgot exactly what it is but deals with the emotional pain of people. She’s like, I just, I have to do the organizational side of it. I can’t work with the people. And that made so much sense to me because, you know for the seven, it’s like I might not always be thinking of others, I might not I always be in touch with my heart, but I know I have the capacity for it. And I don’t know what that’s gonna look like. And I’d rather just have joy. I’d rather just have happiness instead of something that I can’t really bank on being joyful or happy.

[BRANDY]:
Some heavy stuff.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, are you okay?

[BRANDY]:
Thanks, Jackie.

[JACKIE]:
You’re welcome.

[BILLY]:
Yeah. Thank you for taking us there.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. You want to talk about it?

[BRANDY]:
Nope.

[JACKIE]:
It’s okay if you don’t, that’s okay.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, no, that’s good. Thank you. All right. Moving on. Let’s get off the pain train, let’s go to somebody else. All right, Jackie, thank you. Thank you for uh, yeah, thank you for your words and your wisdom. I appreciate it. I’m looking forward to moving on from it though.

[JACKIE]:
I have to say that sometimes like, we’ve joked about this, like, maybe I’m not a seven, I have to say that when I look at somebody, and I can’t say off the bat from like, their features, and the way they talk that they’re a certain enneagram type, they know they are, that’s always a good thing. And that means there’s like a huge sign of health there. And for you to be able to own being a seven and to sit here and get emotional. And I know you’re saying out loud, I don’t want to deal with this, I wanna get off the pain train. But you’re dealing with it in a way that maybe looks different for me and Billy, but you’re dealing with it in your way. And it’s so beautiful too, it is the most wonderful thing I could see, or hear, cuz I can’t see you guys. But it is really beautiful. That is you opening a door knowing it’s not a trapdoor. That’s a huge thing. And I’m really, really proud of you. And I am so excited to not talk about this anymore and give you a minute to like, dwell in it.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, there’s just a lot of truth in what you said, just a lot of, just a lot of truth of just the deep, deep, deep down stuff that you just, you know, I spend my day trying to avoid it. I don’t like looking at it. And then it’s, it’s always there. And it’s a lot of anxiety, and it’s just not healthy. But then there is that side of running and trying to find the good in it all and make things fun and lively so you don’t have to think about it. But it’s nice to hear that you won’t get trapped in it.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. Especially when you have and I have to say this, like, when you have somebody in your life, who is your person, like you have Billy. The people, we have to remember that the people in our life love us too much to hold our hand and lead us into dealing with our pain and then leave us there. They love us way too much to not pull us back out when it gets too deep.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.

[BILLY]:
Well, that’s why I have such profound admiration and respect for you, because you’re able to open and hold these spaces for us in a podcast, and just how much more you’re able to do that one on one in the real world for people as they go deep into their own stuff so they can operate in the world with a little more freedom. And that’s one thing we said about this podcast is we want people to find freedom. And that’s why we have people like you on because you take people on that path and that journey to looking at their stuff, not just for the sake of it, but for the sake of freedom. So thank you, Jackie, we appreciate you so much.

[JACKIE]:
Thank you, it is an honor. It’s an honor to do what I do. And it’s an honor to have a space in your life and a piece of your vulnerability, a piece of your heart, and it means a lot. So thank you. I’m really looking forward to doing the next episode about the instinct center and talking about you, Billy.

[BILLY]:
Oh, my goodness. There we go. Talk to you soon. Jackie.

[JACKIE]:
All righty.

[BILLY]:
Are you ready to find freedom to be yourself as a beta male? Do you want permission and tools to be your best beta? Are you ready to join the revolution to find your strength as a beta? If you want to be comfortable in your own skin and be the most authentic beta male, then our free Beta Male Revolution course is for you. Sign up for free at betamalerevolution.com/course.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guest are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.

Beta Male Revolution is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you thrive, imperfectly. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom Podcast, Imperfect Thriving, or Empowered and Unapologetic, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Speak Your Mind

*




,

betamalerevolution@gmail.com
(903) 336-3484

Got Questions?
Send a Message!