Enneagram Mini-Series: Gut Center, Enneagram Numbers 8, 9 and 1 with Jackie Coban, Part 4 of 5 | Episode 37

Enneagram Mini-Series: Gut Center, Enneagram Numbers 8, 9 and 1 with Jackie Coban, Part 4 of 5 | Episode 37

Have you heard of the gut center in the enneagram? Do you have anyone in your life that is part of the enneagram 8, 9, and 1 numbers? Can learning more about these numbers deepen your relationships and understanding of these people in your life?

In this podcast episode, Billy and Brandy Eldridge speak with Jackie Coban about the Gut Center: Enneagram Numbers 8, 9, and 1.

Meet Jackie Coban

Jackie Coban is an Enneagram & Life Coach: Episode 14

Jackie is a triple-certified coach in Life Coaching, Enneagram Coaching, and Neurolinguistic Programming. She is the founder of Table For 9 Coaching and the host of the Table for 9 podcast. She is a quick-witted, passionate, fire-cracker woman whose personal philosophy is that it IS possible to see people win in life, love, and work.

Jackie is a coach who works with various individuals and groups to help them embrace who they are and what they bring to the table, no pun intended. She is well-balanced in where she has worked: law offices, anti-sex trafficking movements, the non-profit sector, human resources, finance, and the like. She had one thing in common in all places: the pull to “make it work” for everyone. After leading 5+ teams simultaneously at a non-profit organization, she realized what everyone brought to the table was truly different and equally valuable, and she wanted other people to see it, too.

Visit Jackie’s website and connect on Instagram. Listen to her podcast here.

In This Podcast

Summary

  • Gut center
  • Type 8: The Challengers
  • Type 9: The Peacemaker
  • Type 1: The Perfectionist

Gut center

People part of the gut center of intelligence draw on their own physical awareness and instinctual impulses. For the gut center, they struggle with anger and they desire justice.

Type 8: The Challengers

They are also nicknamed the ‘Dragons’ because they are very forward and direct in all the best ways possible. They’re tough and build trust in relationships through conflict.

  • Type 8’s are strong and tough, but they are determined to come off that way, which could also translate into that they are determined not to come off as weak.
  • If you have some Type 8’s in your life, it is good to consider ‘am I intimidated or are they intimidating me?’ when you interact with them to give you a deeper dive into the big energy situation. This is because they may act like bullies but in fact, they will do anything to protect those around them and they despise those who capitalize on other people’s weakness.
  • For Type 8’s, they live by the saying: the best defense is a good offense. However, they all have an inner child they also protect. Type 8’s may have felt that they had to grow up too quickly and so, therefore, cling to a piece of their childhood into adulthood.

If you are friends with or in a relationship with a Type 8, know that they are not looking to fight with you but they want to see if you will stay in the fight alongside them.  For Type 8’s, do not assume everyone is out to get you, you can open up a little bit.

Type 8’s repress their heart center, and that lack of vulnerability is what hides their perceived ‘lack’ of weakness.

  • Type 8’s motivation and tough love can be an incredible motivating factor for people around them. They push those they love to challenge themselves and go head-on into what they want.

Type 9: The Peacemaker

Also known as the Referee, they are highly gifted at seeing things from all sides although they can be stubborn. They like peace, harmony, and stability.

Recognizing and admitting their needs, wants, desires and opinions just might not bode well for them because somewhere along the way, 9s picked up on the fact that a differing opinion or a differing option, it clashes with other people and causes conflict and keep in mind all conflict is big conflict. (Jackie Coban)

Conflict is not pleasant for anyone, besides for Type 8’s, but it is especially difficult for Type 9’s.

  • Type 9’s do not have very high highs or low lows, they live mostly in a harmony, however, they create peace amongst the crowd by neglecting their own needs for the sake of the other people, and this compounds over time and can lead to Type 9s experiencing anxiety.
  • When Type 9’s are about to reach their limit of suppressing, the tell-tale sign of a breakdown coming along is passive aggression. This is the way that they try to get the message across but they get frustrated when people do not pick up on their signs.
  • Type 9’s are advised by Jackie to try to release a little tension in moments of honesty, to quell the growing fires of conflict, by honestly responding to questions about their needs and not worry that they will be turned away by voicing what they want.

You can give the Type 9s in your lives a chance to reflect on their thoughts when you ask their opinions, because they may be out of practice in voicing it. For Type 9s, a word of advice is a rocked boat is not the same as a sinking boat.

Type 9’s can repress their gut center and their physical body because they hold all their tension in their bodies.

Type 1: The Perfectionist

Type 1’s have a sense of mission that leads them to want to improve the world. They will use whatever degree of influence they have to fix or aid whatever they can around them. They have strong opinions and convictions about how they think they should live their lives.

  • They feel personally responsible to keep everything fixed after they have worked on it, however, this responsibility weighs heavily on them when things that they worked on do not go well.
  • Type 1’s may think that if they are flawed, they are bad.
  • They have a very strong inner critic that berates every thought-action, every potential thought action. This inner critic is really good at holding people and themselves accountable for their actions, however, Type 1’s need to try not to become resentful when people fall short of their expectations of them.

They truly believe that if people do not follow the rules, they get into trouble. If you are a Type 1 or you have a Type 1 in your life, you need to have some self-compassion and grace towards yourself.

Make sure to bring a measuring stick to life when you try to comprehend how much fixing you need to do or have done, otherwise your job will never be finished and you will try to perfect everything to no avail and to no end.

Let Jackie know that you heard her on this podcast and get a $30 discount on your first consult.

Are you ready to find the freedom to be yourself as a beta male? Do you want permission and tools to be your best beta? Are you ready to join the revolution to find strength as a beta? If you want to be comfortable in your skin and be the most authentic beta male, then our free beta revolution course is for you. Sign up for free.

Useful links:

Meet Billy Eldridge

billy-eldridge

Meet Billy, the resident beta male. For Billy, this is a place to hang out with other beta males and the people who love them. We’re redefining what beta males look like in the world. I have learned to embrace my best beta self, and I can help you to do the same. As a therapist, I understand the need to belong. You belong here. Join the REVOLUTION.

 

Meet Brandy Eldridge

brandy-eldridge

Hello, Beta friends. I am an alpha personality who is embracing the beta way of life. I feel alive when connected with people, whether that is listening to their stories or learning about their passions. Forget small talk, let’s go deep together. Come to the table and let’s have some life-changing conversations.

 

Thanks for listening!

Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of the Beta Male Revolution Podcast on iTunes and subscribe!

Podcast Transcription

[BILLY]:
Beta Male Revolution is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a family of podcasts seeking to change the world. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom podcast, Imperfect Thriving, or Empowered and Unapologetic, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

Merry Christmas, Beta Male Revolution, this is our gift to you, this series on the enneagram with Jackie Coban. A Christmas gift you could get back to us would be rating and reviewing on Apple iTunes, you see how I did that, that little thing there? It just helps us out a little bit in promoting the podcast if, if you feel so inclined. Also, if you’re looking for counseling services, the holidays can be a tough time, as much as they can be a wonderful time. If you’re looking for counseling services, that’s something I do offer in my day job through Olive Tree Counseling, at olivetreetxk.com. I am licensed in three states so I can do therapy and teletherapy through those states and outside areas, we have developed quite a network of people we work with and we connect others with, so reach out to us.

Also, Jackie has a gift for us, $30 off an individual typing session. Now even if you already know your type on the enneagram it helps to get with an individual and take a deep dive and looking into your internal workings. And so there’s nothing quite like figuring out your number and going deeper with your number with another live human being. The tests are great but I’m just gonna have to say they come in second to working with an individual who’s committed and devoted their life to understanding the enneagram. So reach out to Jackie and get that $30 off. And here we go.

[BRANDY]:
Hi, Jackie. Welcome back.

[JACKIE]:
Hi guys. [Unclear] be here. Hi.

[BRANDY]:
I’m excited to talk about the gut. What do you also call the gut, Jackie?

[JACKIE]:
The instinct center.

[BRANDY]:
Yes. And we are going to talk about eight, nine and one. And my lovely, sweet, beta male husband is a nine. So I cannot wait to get to that. But I like to talk about the eight two, because I need to learn how to work with eights.

[BILLY]:
Let’s not leave out the one. I’ve met some very interesting ones.

[BRANDY]:
I love ones, I love ones. I wish that I could have ones all around me, all day long. Like I need the ones. So I am excited about that. I’m excited about having you, our listeners are excited about having you. We were talking beforehand and I just want to again say, so everyone knows, that Jackie is one of the wisest youngest people I know. And I’m so honored to know her and I’m so glad the world has you in it, Jackie, because you make it a better place.

[JACKIE]:
Thank you guys so much. Every time you guys say that, to me, I feel like I get butterflies, you guys are so sweet. And I appreciate you guys. And just the connection we’ve been able to make has just changed me. So I really appreciate a maintained sustainable connection. So thank you.

[BRANDY]:
Oh, thank you. Lots of feelings, lots of feelings.

[BILLY]:
Don’t run from them, lean into them, Brandy.

[BRANDY]:
Move on to [unclear].

[JACKIE]:
Alright, let’s get the heck out of here. So I guess we’ll start by saying if you haven’t listened to the two previous or rather three previous episodes, I would encourage that. But if you are getting into this, and you’re like, what the heck is gut or 8, 9, 1, listen to the last two, we’ll talk about the other two centers of intelligence. And quick recap, a center of intelligence is basically when you’re, you know, your brain’s your brain. But your center of intelligence is kind of like your mind, your processing center. So it’s either the head, the heart or the gut or instinct center. And so today we’re talking about the gut center. So the gut center or the instinct center, they typically draw on their own physical awareness and impulses, instinctual impulses, to a direct action. So we were talking previously about how each center of intelligence struggles with something and desires something. So for the gut, for the guts center, they struggle with anger. And we’ll see what each type does with that anger, and they desire justice. Now, justice looks very different for every single one of these three types. So it’s very interesting to see that come all together. And then again, we’re going to talk about the fun anchor points. So we’ll start with eight.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, eight sounds good. Let’s get into some eights. They make me nervous. Why do they make me nervous?

[JACKIE]:
You’re gonna see why. Yeah, so um, I love the enneagram type eight. I think, people ask me all the time, do you have a favorite type? And the answer is no, from a coach standpoint. From when I look at my group of friends, I love my eights. I love my eights. So they’re often called the challengers, the contrarians. Some people say the dragon, I like it a lot. If you know someone who’s an eight and you jive with them, and you are not afraid of them, the dragon is good.

So they are perhaps the most misunderstood type of the enneagram. Because I meet people, first of all, if I meet an eight, they’re usually really reluctant. Okay, everyone’s like, what are you? I’m a seven. What are you? I’m a three. And then, what are you? Oh, I’m an eight. And, you know, or people say things like, oh, I met a really unhealthy eight once. And it’s like, no, you probably just met a regular eight, and you didn’t stand up for yourself, and you were intimidated by them for no reason. So that’s the introduction I’ve got for the type eight. They are very forward, they can be aggressive, or, and I think aggressive is a very relative term. Unless someone’s actually agitated, aggressive is a very relative term. They can be direct in all the best ways possible. They’re tough. They are the dragon. Like, there’s this joke that I heard about eights that their superpower is superpower. Like they just are. They build trust and relationships through conflict, which is so weird to us as people who perhaps are not BFFs with conflict, right? Through fighting, through a good tussle, through standing up for yourself. Like, they’re the kind of people that even if we’re good, like, I don’t mind just stomping on the ice between us to make sure things are solid. And the result of it actually being like, oh, I stomped my foot and that person’s still there, that builds a lot of trust and intimacy. Um, have you ever seen My Sister’s Keeper?

[BRANDY]:
Yes.

[JACKIE]:
Okay.

[BRANDY]:
I hated it.

[JACKIE]:
I cried so much.

[BILLY]:
That’s why she hated it. She [unclear] tears.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, right. So the lawyer that represents the little girl, Anna. I remember there’s a scene and I was like, this is such enneagram eight energy. The judge asks, didn’t you try to sue God in my courtroom? And he looks at her and goes, I did sue God and I won. And that to me, I was like, that’s such enneagram eight energy. They’ll see in black and white. They have facts. You have opinions. They have big energy. I like to joke and say, and I’m so sorry. I like to say they have big dick energy.

[BILLY]:
Yeah. BDE.

[JACKIE]:
Yes, to keep it PG, they have big energy and they can really accomplish really anything in front of them.

[BILLY]:
I think of Al Pacino in Scent of a Woman.

[BRANDY]:
I don’t get that reference. But yes, [unclear].

[JACKIE]:
I’ve never seen that.

[BILLY]:
He’s just ooh, aah. But anyway.

[JACKIE]:
I’ve never seen that. Oh, my gosh. But yeah, so here’s the thing. Yes, they are strong. They are tough. But they’re also determined to come off that way. Right? And more than that, more than I’m determined to look strong, it, let’s flip it on its head and say they’re determined to not look weak. So what ends up happening is they’re really surprised that their regular interactions with people come off as strong and intense. They’re always surprised by the feedback that people see them through the eyes of intimidation. I think a good question just to sidetrack for a second to ask yourself is, are they intimidating me or am I intimidated? Because there’s a difference between someone intimidating you and you feeling intimidated. And you can kind of dive deep into that. That’s a good thing to put on the backburner if you have some eights in your life, which you probably do.

[BILLY]:
Oh, yeah, no, that’s good. My business partner is an eight. And one day, we had to have a discussion about forming our business partnership. And I was wearing my Fitbit, which gives my heart rate. And for him, we’re just having a conversation. To me, it’s total conflict. And he looks at my heart rate, and it’s well over 100 beats a minute, and he’s like, dude, why is your heart racing so much? I’m like, sweating. I’m like, this is very uncomfortable. And he puts his hand on my shoulder. He said, It’s okay, buddy. We’re just having a conversation. He goes, this is good. I’m like, this is not good. This is uncomfortable. You know, but he has this way, but also when I’m with him, we have this yin and yang in our relationship. But he has that BDE when he walks into a room, he like, owns the space and for fun, he does this thing called Kaji Kimbo, which is like some fighting thing he puts [unclear] hits people and he’s like, he’s like, that’s my therapy. That’s how I get out like, aggression and stuff and all these, I don’t know. [Unclear]

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. It’s like, you know, I heard that, I thought of like, you know, when a burglar comes into your house and puts a knife to your neck and goes, I’m not gonna hurt you. Like, that’s the first thing I thought of.

[BILLY]:
But here’s the thing, man. I know if push came to shove, and someone was gonna have my back. He is loyal to the nth degree, and my friendship with him is like no other. And we have a love and respect for each other that it really opened me up to that for having that with another guy because I was always taught, you know, you don’t hug another guy, you don’t love another guy. But I tell you when he walks into the room, and I would give him a hug, I love this guy. And I know he’s got my back. And if anything were to ever happen, you know, he’ll do whatever he can to protect the situation.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. And you know, that actually transitions beautifully into one of the next things that I wanted to say, which is, sometimes they might come off as bullies or the bullying type. But that is where everybody gets really off base because they will not tolerate the exploitation of weakness. They will not let someone be taken advantage of. They’ll do anything to protect the underdog. They’ll do anything to protect the people they love. I mean, there’s actually, while someone like Mother Teresa might be typed as an enneagram two, a lot of people who worked with her and also worked with the enneagram claim that they’re pretty sure she was an eight because she was tough as balls. Right? So I think that, you know, eights obviously get a bad rap. But really, they’re just, they’re like, they’re like pit bulls, right? Like, they’re like the sweetest, but most protective people I’ve ever met. So the truth is, if you had the worldview of a type eight, you would probably be that bull in a china shop also, because they believe that the world takes advantage of and exploits the weak. So that’s their motivation for not being seen as weak. Right? So it’s like, I refuse to be blindsided, if I can help it. So I’m gonna like, the best offense is a good defense, or however that phrase goes.

[BRANDY]:
You’re talking to people that don’t have sports references.

[BILLY]:
Is that a basketball term?

[BRANDY]:
I believe it’s soccer.

[BILLY]:
Soccer.

[BRANDY]:
Football, sorry.

[BILLY]:
Foosball.

[JACKIE]:
My favorite sport is watching The Office and eating potato chips.

[BRANDY]:
Thank you. Yes, we are Olympic special, well, I can’t say that. But I’m just, The Office episode where they do the Olympics in the office.

[JACKIE]:
Oh, Office Olympics.

[BRANDY]:
Thank you.

[JACKIE]:
Oh, what is it called? What’s the game they play?

[BRANDY]:
Gluten [unclear]? No.

[JACKIE]:
Oh, yeah. With the…

[BRANDY]:
Okay. [Unclear].

[JACKIE]:
Oh, where they like, slide on paper?

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, so good.

[JACKIE]:
No, anyway.

[BILLY]:
My daughter’s going as Prison Mike for Halloween.

[JACKIE]:
Stop. That is the best costume. I’m Prison Mike.

[BRANDY]:
We’re gonna get sued by NBC.

[BILLY]:
Yes.

[BRANDY]:
Sorry.

[BILLY]:
We can always take time for great Office references.

[JACKIE]:
True. Always, always always. So I will say like, if you’re listening, and you’re like, oh, shoot, I’m an eight. You know, don’t take any of this personally, but you’re not as tough as you come across. Let’s just be honest, there’s a part of themselves they want to protect. The thing about eights that’s notorious is there’s an inner child, like this beautiful inner child. So I meet a lot of eights and they don’t really admit to this until later but they all have something that’s childish, not childlike, but childish. They might still sleep with a teddy bear or collect action figure airplanes and play with them or have these like little things on their desk like trinkets, things like that. Because there’s, there’s this inner child, there’s almost like a knowing of the type eight that they kind of had to grow up or felt that they had to grow up kind of quickly. And there’s like a piece of their childhood that they’re still longing for, attached to.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, my 43 year old business partner loves Star Wars, Star Wars memorabilia, and video games. I’m like, you’re such a kid, bro. But I love that part about him.

[JACKIE]:
Yes. And we need that. Like, if they continue to keep in touch with that child and keep that child alive, they become the best version. They can be both big and protective and like small and sweet at the same time, if they protect that inner child and let them up for air, you know. One thing that I think is really important is if you are friends with a type eight, to remember, they’re not looking to fight with you. Or in a relationship. They’re not looking to fight with you. They’re looking to see if you’ll stay in the fight with them. So them picking a fight, making something way bigger than it is even if they don’t make it dramatic. It’s them waiting to see if you’re going to stay in it with them. So if you’re listening to this and you’re like yeah, I feel like I’m totally an eight, yes, go with your gut when it comes to people. Right. Even if you are afraid to show your vulnerability but don’t assume that everyone is out to blindside you. Open up a little bit and be aware of how you come across. And a big part of that is that when someone says you hurt my feelings by saying this or you’re coming across this way, you can believe them without agreeing.

And I love eights, I love them very deeply. I will say that too, because we were talking about and I didn’t mention this in the beginning, but the repressed center. So while the eight is in the gut center, and we can tell that their gut instinct is very forward, right, so no real method to the madness, it’s just, I get something in my gut, and I go for it, I just kind of reach for it. But they also repress the heart center. And that lack of vulnerability is what really hides the weakness from them. So it makes them not look as forward, it makes them look like they’re not thinking of other people as much. But that’s just not the case. And we know it, it’s just a repressed center that they can have complete control over, the more they are vulnerable and self aware.

[BRANDY]:
That’s good, because I think in the enneagram, they’re the ones that get the worst outlook, you know, people think, [unclear] you’re an eight, yeah, they get a bad rap. And really, you know, some of the eights are some of the healthiest people I know. They’re just decisive, and they know what they want. And they’re not afraid to mince words, and they get stuff done, and they advocate, and they change the world. And I mean, our eight should have a good rap. They really should, because they are important, and I love eights. I get intimidated by them, but I love them.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, I think I think all of the enneagram types, they do something for us that we can’t do for ourselves. And for the type eight, they have a confidence and I don’t care what other people think about me in the sense that it’s not going to stop me kind of thing, like they are really unstoppable. And so when I wanted to start my business, I mentioned previously that like, my partner was one of the first people that I told but the first person I told, when it was a fetus, right? It was not even a concept. I called one of my best friends. Her name is Giselle, and she’s an enneagram type eight. And I was like, look, I have all of these thoughts but I also have all these hesitations. I went through all of them. And she said out loud with confidence what I was thinking but did not have the courage to implement, which was, but who cares what people think? If this is what you’re supposed to do, this is what you’re supposed to do. And I am so glad because this is where I am now because of yeah, because of the hard work I put in, but because of Giselle’s confidence, because she guided me. So sometimes we need a little bullying. I don’t believe in tough love. But if someone tells you the hard thing that you need to hear, and it helps and builds that confidence in you, like, go to an eight. They’re really good for that.

[BILLY]:
Yeah. It’s, it’s so odd, because so many things are coming to light right now, you know, and I say eights make me uncomfortable. But probably the individual I love most outside of my immediate family is my business partner and friend Randy Thomason, and he’s an eight. And he challenges me in ways and brings that eightness into my life. And you taught me something, Jackie, in my relationship with him early on in our first podcast, that in that eightness, when I shrink, that’s not something I need to do. But when I match him, kind of when I have that challenge, and I step up to the plate, and I have a difficult conversation, it creates a depth to our relationship, and I don’t shy away from it. Even though my heart rate may be 150 beats a minute, and I’m perspiring, and I’m super uncomfortable. After it’s all said and done it wasn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be and we’re so much better off. Because there are times when he pulls me out of myself and I pull him, like somebody said something about our business on social media that wasn’t flattering. And I’m like, what are you doing, Randy? And I mean, it’s like he’s gone Braveheart. He’s painting his face. He’s like, I’m going to [unclear], you know? And I’m like, no, no, no. I do the Michelle Obama, like, when they go low, we go high. And he’s like, oh, yeah, I remember that now. We just need to stay quiet. We don’t address it. We let it go. And so that’s the push and pull of our relationship. But sometimes I’m like, oh, I’m gonna turn you loose, Randy, go get them. [Unclear].

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, they really are so beautiful. And like, I mean, when you have the trust of an eight, it is like something I’ve, you know, one of my, a lot of my friends are eights, but I remember one of them who when I was in an organization, he was my direct leader. And so he texted me after work. And he was like, hey, can we meet up at the park by your house? And I was like, yeah, of course. And when we got there, he started crying. And he just needed to get it out. And he needed a safe place to get it out. And that was the biggest honor for me because I was like, when you find a person who really feels like their vulnerability is going to be the end of the world and you get to be a safe place for it, like, I had to backtrack actually. When I was getting my notes together for the enneagram type eight to do my trainings, what was my friendship like with him that led him, after knowing him for five years, to really be able to cry in front of me? What was it? And it was that when he fought, I fought back, when he stomped on the ice, I was still there, even if the ice was cracking. And that consistency built trust, it built that safe place. And so, yeah, sometimes it’s hard depending on your enneagram type to, quote unquote, put up with that. But when you realize everyone does things out of a certain worldview, it helps you to have a little bit more compassion, patience and staying around.

[BILLY]:
Okay, I’m with you, Jackie. Keep on teaching me. I want to hear about the nine.

[JACKIE]:
Are you ready? Billy, are you ready?

[BRANDY]:
I’m ready.

[BILLY]:
I’m ready, Jackie.

[BRANDY]:
Let’s do it.

[JACKIE]:
Alright.

[BILLY]:
Let’s do this.

[JACKIE]:
Let’s do it. Okay, enneagram type nine. They are often called the peacemaker or the wallflower. I like the referee as a nickname, I think it’s like, very accurate. Nines are the least controlling type on the enneagram. So let’s get that out of the way, first and foremost, especially because they’re in the gut center. And we’re going to talk a little bit about that. They are really highly gifted in seeing things on all sides. They can be stubborn, they have like a stubborn strength when it comes to being able to mediate with people or amongst people. They know what they want. They do. Sometimes they just take a little nap to what they want. And they fuse their wants, needs, desires, and likes with other people. We’ll talk about why in a minute. But they really are, not my words, but the sweethearts of the enneagram. I have never met a nine I didn’t like, and I’ve never met somebody else who didn’t like the other nines in our life. Really. They like peace. They like harmony. They like stability. They like an unrocked boat. It’s easier to take a nap in, am I right?

[BILLY]:
[Unclear]. And the world is a hard place to be a nine right now. Everything is so polarized and divided.

[JACKIE]:
It’s one or the other. Yeah.

[BILLY]:
Yeah. It’s like, it can’t be both. And I’m like, why can’t we all get along? Why aren’t we getting along?

[JACKIE]:
I think it’s funny to realize even these big things have tension. You know, I think of the, since you guys are lovers of The Office, you know when Pam is talking about Karen, right? And she goes, I hate the idea that somebody out there hates me. I hate thinking that even al Qaeda hates me. I think if they got to know me, they wouldn’t hate me. But Karen knows me and she still hates me. But like, even these big things, it can be super polarizing, right? Like, it’s like, my family is great. I don’t have any inner tension, no tension with my spouse, no tension with my kids, no tension in my workplace, everything is great, but it’s election season. And that still has the same effect as immediate conflict. So I find that really interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever met, maybe besides an eight, but no one really likes conflict. No one enjoys conflict.

[BRANDY]:
Right. Nobody likes conflict.

[JACKIE]:
But conflict looks very different for a nine because while conflict for us is like, oh, this is gonna be a rough one. This confrontation is gonna be tough. For nines, it’s like literally kicking the hornet’s nest. Like to the point where sometimes we feel like we’re having a hard conversation, like I feel like Brandy and I are the type of people who can go at it and then be like, alright, talk to you later, bye. And a small conversation to a nine might immediately translate as conflict because of tension, because of stress, because of an elevated heart rate, whatever that looks like. So this is where their merging and fusing with other people comes in. Recognizing and admitting their needs, wants, desires, opinions, it just might not bode well for them because somewhere along the way, nines picked up on the fact that a differing opinion, a differing option, a differing, you know, where do you want to eat tonight, option, whatever, it clashes with other people and causes conflict and keep in mind, all conflict is big conflict.

So other people, this is like the hidden message, and every nine I’ve ever met does not agree with the statement right away because on a cerebral level, it doesn’t make any sense, but then when they unpack it, it makes sense. Other people are more important than I am. Other people not having to forego what they want, other people not having to forego having their needs met, are way more important than me speaking my opinion right now. And the one thing that I’ve seen with my clients who are nines is they kind of feel that the people around them who love them don’t really even know them. And they recognize it’s their fault, for lack of a better word. They recognize that the people around me don’t really know me, because I just haven’t shown them. And so they don’t really have high highs and low lows. They’re just peaceful, they’re steady. And that peace is to bring others this deep seated harmony, but it doesn’t really bring harmony within themselves the way they think it does. It’s kind of counterproductive in a sense. I’m gonna put my needs on the backburner to bring this peace, but I’m the only one who doesn’t have peace. So yeah, we can have mint chocolate chip ice cream, because it’s your favorite, but I fucking hate the stuff. Right?

[BILLY]:
I’m with you. And the fact that you mentioned the gut, and I don’t know if there’s any connection, there may not be, but when fear and anxiety manifests in me as a nine, I primarily feel it in my gut.

[JACKIE]:
Yes.

[BILLY]:
I can tell in my stomach, the temperature of the room, you know, and I’ve been prone to anxiety my whole life. And I get an upset stomach, often, when I’m in conflict, and I feel it right there in my belly. And it is needing to merge with people, needing to, it’s so weird. And I think part of it is what makes me a halfway decent therapist is that I mirror people, but I have to be careful, almost down to the point that I’ll mirror the tone in their voice. And if they have an accent, like, I may be going there too. I’m like becoming them.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, we have to be careful about who Billy’s around. Because then he starts talking like them and takes the, he’s like a chameleon, he takes it on. But it is, you know, a form of therapy as well, to mirror people in therapy.

[BILLY]:
But it’s not always healthy, cuz I’ll forget who I am. And I’m like, when I’m out, and I work in a rural place in Oklahoma and the accent’s real strong out there. And when I answer the phone out there, when I’m talking to Brandy, it’s like, hey, baby, how you doing? And she’s like, why are you talking like that?

[JACKIE]:
She’s like, who the hell is this?

[BRANDY]:
No, I don’t say that. I say, oh, you must be in Oklahoma. I can tell who is calling him on the phone by how he answers it and starts talking to them. I can recognize the accent and where they’re from and who they are.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, so if I say coffee long enough, will you pick that up?

[BILLY]:
Coffee. Yes, absolutely. [Unclear].

[JACKIE]:
Yes. New Jersey. So here’s the thing. And I’d love to, at the end, I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, Billy and Brandy, for the nine, what they tend to feel, right, like, you said it perfectly. The anger, you do an incredible job, as a nine, of repressing and hiding the anger in the gut, and you fall asleep to it, avoid it completely, until the dam bursts, which it always does. And then when it does, right before the symptom of the dam is about to burst, is passive aggression.

[BRANDY]:
Oh, God.

[BILLY]:
What would you be talking about, Jackie?

[JACKIE]:
So here’s a little tidbit for nines and for those who love nines. If you find that you are trying to get your message across, and you’re so mad that somebody else is not getting it, A, you didn’t actually say it at all, and B, you’re being passive aggressive and you’re about to pop. And that is going to be way worse and a lot more conflict bearing than saying, how come you always pick the movie? And that’ll save you a little bit of pain if you say it outright. But I will say this, if you ask a nine for their opinion, they might not really have one. And when I say that, I mean if they do, they don’t realize they have one, or they don’t want to share it. Ask them if they have an opinion, if they say they don’t say, alright, let’s revisit this in five minutes and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Give them time to self reflect because sometimes what we do becomes muscle memory. So if we walk around our lives saying that like we don’t have an opinion about this or whatever you guys are. When we do that for long enough, we fall asleep to the fact that we even have our opinions. Twos are like this in the way that if you ask us what we need, we don’t even know anymore, because we have just been sleeping to it for so long.

So I just want to encourage people, don’t rob your nine of feeling important, or of the power of being part of the decision, or assuming that just because they’re easy going they don’t have something to say. Remind them that they’re not responsible for keeping peace all the time. And work with them to say, is this really disturbing your peace or is this inconvenience? And help them spot the difference. But if you’re listening to this and you feel like you’re a nine, the beauty of you is that no one else has the ability like you to be able to see all sides Yes, you use it to keep peace, but you could be using it for so much more, asserting your strength is welcomed. And my favorite piece of advice to my nines, who I love so much, is that a rocked boat is not the same as a sinking boat. So rock that boat, baby.

So, really quick, I do want to actually talk about the repressed center for the type nine. So I mentioned this in the previous podcasts but every center of intelligence has an anchor point, it’s three, six, and nine. And what that means is, each of those types don’t have a wing outside their center. Wings, again, just to backtrack are the number just to the left and to the right of your type. But what that means is that the nine, the numbers to the left and the right are one and eight, all within the gut center. And it’s so overwhelming to the nine that they repress their gut center, their instinct center. So really a nine instinct acts on impulses in the same group as an eight, yes, but they repress it the most often, and they also repress their physical body. So they aren’t just trying to take a nap to get the heck away from you, maybe they are, but they do need a little bit more sleep because they’re holding it all in their body. And that kind of thing.

[BRANDY]:
That makes sense.

[BILLY]:
That makes total sense. And I would love to look into this one day, and that’s for another episode, maybe a question. But when we look at the world of addiction, I wonder if some numbers are prone to certain substances, more than others, because I know for nines and the nines that I see, opiates, numbing drugs, they help you numb out from the world. And then I see other numbers like more, like, speed, cocaine, methamphetamine, are more their personality type. But I’ve always heard that opiates are kind of rooted in that avoidance of life, and not knowing what I feel, if I just numb it, then I don’t have to think about it.

[BRANDY]:
Right. Yeah.

[JACKIE]:
I have some thoughts on that. We can talk about that in the Q&A if you’d like.

[BILLY]:
Absolutely. Yeah.

[JACKIE]:
I’d love to hear some of your overall thoughts on the nine before we go over to one.

[BILLY]:
For me, I don’t know what I think.

[BRANDY]:
Let’s revisit this in five minutes.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, that’s one of the thoughts that I can usually go around a room and be like, well, they’re happy. They seem sad. And then somebody says, Billy, but how do you feel? And sometimes I really don’t know. And I work with people on their feelings and identifying their feelings. But to me, it’s an ongoing mystery that I want to tap into. And then that, you know, that would be one of my questions is, you know, how do I wake up? You talked about being asleep, what is the process of waking up to the things you’re asleep to look like?

[JACKIE]:
Do you want me to answer that now? Okay, um, I think it’s, there’s a few different sides of it, I think it’s first making the decision that your opinion also matters. And if somebody else’s opinion does or doesn’t cause conflict, yours can too. And when I say can, not like has the ability to but is allowed to. And also deciding to speak your opinions, knowing that the people around you love you so much that if you say, I’m afraid to watch this movie, maybe we can watch a different one, they’re not going to be like, eff this guy, he ruined the whole night, right? Like, it’s about also making the decision that the people around you, know you and love you enough to maintain respect for you, and maintain love for you and not pull away from you, even if you say what’s on your mind. And to remember, little by little, every day as the opportunity comes up that it’s a work in progress, also to remember that there’s not a single person on this earth that matters more or less than you do. Your opinion is valid and needs to be practiced.

So if you notice something about somebody else, Billy. If you’re at a party and you are like wow, Jackie looks really happy right now, immediately make it a practice to ask yourself, what do I feel? Okay, cool. Even if no one asks you, make it a muscle reaction to constantly be aware of what you’re feeling, what you’re thinking and what your opinions are at every moment. Now, don’t be that person that has to say them every single minute of the day without it being warranted. But make it a habit. It’s kind of like when I tell my twos, you know, self care is a muscle that atrophies without use, right? And speaking your opinions and even recognizing your opinions wants and needs is also a muscle that atrophies without use. So build it up.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I remember a pivotal moment in my life was when I first got involved in a 12 step group and an old fella sat me down at the table and talked to me after a meeting. And one of the things he said is, you need to know, you’re one of God’s kids and God’s crazy about you. And I felt worthy, and a part of, not more than, not less than, I was like, right sized in the world, just a person among people. And I was a person of worth and value. And in that moment, because I’d grown up in circles that said, you know, you sin too much, you’re too bad here, you need to be better here. And it was always a striving to be, and in that moment, there was no striving, just who I was in the moment. I was one of God’s kids. And God was crazy about me. And that was enough. And I didn’t need to do anything else. And it was just acceptance. And I felt this stuff fall off of me that had been on me for years. And I don’t know, maybe a lot of people been telling me that my whole life. I just hadn’t my ears open to hear it. And regardless of what I believed in the moment, because I wasn’t too sure about the whole God thing, but dang, it felt good.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah. Yeah. And that’s the thing. People can tell you things till they’re blue in the face. But really, you have to be ready for it. And so it sounds like this is a moment, you know? Yeah. All right. Brandy, any thoughts?

[BILLY]:
She just stepped out. [Unclear]. Yes. She had to re-up on her coffee. So we’ll hop over to ones.

[JACKIE]:
Yes, I can’t blame her. Okay. Enneagram ones, they are called the perfectionist, the reformers, the activists, the machines. I mean, like, I think all of these things apply. But my favorite is the reformer. My favorite thing to tell people because I am such a reader is if you know Atticus Finch from To Kill a Mockingbird, he is like, I mean, okay, let me just tell you. So there’s a part in the book where I think his son asks him why he’s going to defend a black man in court at that time period in history. And he said, before I have to live with anyone else’s opinions, I have to live with myself. And that is the epitome of the one. And so we’re going to talk about a whole host of things. The nickname, perfectionist, or reformer, really comes from the fact that they have this like, sense of mission that leads them to want to improve the world. I will give you guys a little peep show that there’s a, not peep show, Jesus, sneak peek. You want a peep show you’re going to have to marry me.

[BILLY]:
You get a little extra today, Beta Male Revolution, that’ll be on the show [unclear] now.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, if you want a peep show, you’re gonna have to marry me for that.

[BILLY]:
There you go.

[JACKIE]:
Sneak peek is that they don’t really have a measuring stick when it comes to whether or not they’ve fixed things or improved things in their world, or if things are perfect enough. So that’s a little peek into their world, but they’re going to use whatever degree of influence they have to fix what’s around them that they feel is broken or needs their touch. So they exhibit a lot of control, a lot more control, I think, than any of the other enneagram types. They have strong opinions and convictions. I think a lot of people misunderstand that in that I have friends who are both, you know, let’s say like this, on the conservative side, strong convictions, strong opinions and they’re enneagram ones. And I have friends on the complete other side who are very, very liberal, opposite of conservative, you know, live their life by their own rules, but they still have very strong opinions and convictions. So it’s not about being more conservative or not or anything like that. It’s just about whatever life you live, it’s consistent and you have strong convictions about the way you live. So I want to kind of get that out of the way because I think everyone thinks that ones have to be polished and they don’t.

[BILLY]:
Which, correct me if I’m wrong. They’re more, I don’t know of the term, like hard lines, like right and wrong, left and right, very dualistic, and on one side or the other, but just very strong feelings about that one thing. And the ones I’ve had in my life it’s just, it’s very this is the way it is. There’s not a whole lot of room for much else.

[JACKIE]:
That’s pretty much it. Yeah. So they also see in black and white just kind of like the eights. But realistically, it doesn’t have to be a certain thing that they see. Whatever it is that they see as right or wrong is right or wrong. And there’s no way of talking them out of it. So I have met both, you know, I’m just saying this for the sake of you know the previous elections is, whether it’s like conservative or liberal, or whatever, just in the season, I’ve been talking to my friends and my clients, who are ones. And the friends who are conservative are like, nope, this is right and this is wrong. And that’s that, don’t change my mind because you can’t. And on the liberal side, same thing. So it’s not about I’m more conservative, because I’m a one, or I’m more liberal because I’m a one. But it’s that strong conviction about what they believe.

So, whatever space they’re in, kind of just going back to like them wanting to improve things, their eyes can go to what is wrong in the sense that like, mistakes will jump out at them and they personally will feel responsible for leaving everything better than they found it. And it’s a personal responsibility, which is going to weigh a lot on a person when it’s not actually yours to fix. So they may say something to you about it or rearrange something when you’re not looking. But this is the kind of thing that makes us look at ones and go, why are they so critical? Or why do they think they’re so much better than everyone else? And the reality is they don’t. Their worldview is simply, if everything around me, if everything I do is not perfect, then I’m not perfect, and I’m flawed. And if I’m not perfect, and I have flaws, I’m bad, I’m evil, I’m not good. And that’s a progression. That’s a deep rooted worldview. They don’t sit there like a train of thought that goes, okay, if I’m this, then I’m this and, it’s just a gut reaction. They have a very strong inner critic, and we’re talking about the type six having this strong inner committee, but the type one has a strong inner critic that berates every thought, action, potential thought, potential action, they’re already telling you what everyone in the room is thinking about you.

My college best friend, also named Jackie, she’s also amazing like me, she’s an enneagram one. And when I was talking to her about the inner critic, she was like, oh, my God, and she started sobbing. And she was like, you’re telling me that not everybody has that? And I was like, no, no, we don’t. So that inner critic can be a, like a parental or like a policing voice. This is what makes ones guardians for the rules. They hold people accountable to where they need it most, but really need to be careful about other people’s imperfections, and not getting resentful, right people? The thing about ones is that they can tend to get resentful of other people and their imperfections, because the one is holding everyone else around them to a very high standard. But they’re not saying it out loud. They’re holding themselves to an impeccably high standard as well. And they assume everyone is doing or should do the same. And so they get really fresh, they may say things like, I feel like I’m the only freakin adult around here. Right? And that’s simply because they’re like, why isn’t everybody, like you should just know to clear your plate in the freakin garbage before you put the dish in the sink. Like, what? And the reality is no one else is policing themselves in that same way.

And so for those beautiful ones, they really need to be careful to understand that not everyone has that same thought processes they do and to not get resentful and just throw their hands up and be like, I’m done. And just assume that not everyone is seeing it the way you’re seeing it.

[BILLY]:
Yeah, I have a friend that, he’s a businessman. He’s a one. And he’s been very successful. And he’s tried to get other people to, you know, other people are like, wow, you’re super, super successful at what you do. And he’s like, oh, yeah, it’s super easy. All you have to do is boom, boom, boom, boom, and go out and do this. And you’ll be super successful. But it doesn’t translate to the other people. To him, in his mind it’s very, this is all you have to do. If you follow this process it’s very easy. Just do this, do this, do this, do this. And the outcome will be this. But you get another number and they’re trying to do it. And they’re like, they’re lost. And they can’t translate success in the same way that he has as a one.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, that’s exactly it. It’s like, why can’t you? What do you mean, you don’t understand?

[BILLY]:
Yeah, he’s like, this is super easy. Yeah, I’m like, I look at it and I’m like, no, dude, I couldn’t do that. He’s like, no, no, all you have to do is this, this, this and this. And I’m like, no, that’s foreign to me. And it almost baffles him, like, wow, no, all you have to do is you have to get on the road, you have to make these sales calls, you have to do this and do this and then it will translate into success. I’m like, no, I’m lost. He’s like, how could you be lost? It’s so easy.

[JACKIE]:
Right. And that’s the thing, that standard is so ingrained in people, like, it’s this, the enneagram one, whatever standard they have for their lives is so ingrained in them that they assume that everybody sees things the way they do. And for them like that’s almost like a coping mechanism in a sense, because they’re going to blame themselves for any situation that goes awry, even if they’re not involved. If they’re around, they’ll blame themselves for it, they’ll feel that it has something to do with it. And so to be as prepared as possible mentally is huge for them. And so I think it’s important to also know that like, when they’re being critical, or what we would think is critical they’re actually trying to help you. They think that they’re being helpful. They genuinely want to be good people.

And they struggle a lot with resentment, not necessarily anger, like anger might come out in a moment. But that frustration, that resentment, it’s heavily restrained and comes with an internal conflict. So they truly believe that the world judges people who don’t follow the rules, that’s the life that they live for themselves. They feel like if I don’t follow the rules, if I don’t have everything done to a tee like, I’m a bad person, I’m going to be judged harshly because of that. And so for them, anger tops the list of their feelings. But anger is bad. Anger is not good. And they are striving to be good. So the anger burrows its head as resentment. And it really builds up. And that’s why if you see the dam burst on a one, they are inconsolable, they’re not themselves at all, like a complete 180.

The thing to have compassion about for the ones is that they really believe that they’re inherently corrupt somehow, which we look at them and we’re like, you are literally like the role model of justice, like get out of here. And they’re like, they really believe that they’re bad or evil, or just something is just not right about them. And the dam always bursts at some point, right? Like I said before, so imagine believing that you are this like bad, terrible person, so you don’t let your emotions out. And then your dam bursts. And you’re like, I’m a bad, horrible person. So if you have a type one in your life, or if you are listening to this and you feel like you’re a type one, you need to have grace for yourself, knowing that you’re not gonna be perfect all the time. And you strive your best to live an upright and upstanding life with integrity and with honesty, and that is the thing that people see. And that is the thing that people remember, that is the part of you that people need to see, we don’t need to see the finished product, we need to see the person that strives every day to make things right, to do, to live their best life.

The other thing I will tell ones is that if you are trying to perfect something or change something or reform something, because it needs a little touch, that is beautiful. Make sure it comes with a measuring stick, because you will never be done trying to perfect yourself or the people around you or the things around you. And you need to know what you are measuring it up to, have a measuring stick because that journey will never end if you don’t.

[BRANDY]:
Anything else we need to know about the ones, the gut, the eights, the nines.

[JACKIE]:
So I would say that the repressed center for the nine is actually the thinking center. And so they’re more dependent types, the enneagram type ones, and so they obviously their gut is the first and foremost, the heart is second and the mind center, the thinking center kind of takes the backburner, so when they do tap into it, when they’re more self aware, and they tap into it, they’re able to be like, you know what, I think this is good enough and justify their work or the reformation of a project or something, where in reality, it tends to get the backburner because they’re not using their mind center as much.

[BRANDY]:
Well, that’s just exactly the opposite of what I thought. Because the ones I know, are some of the most, I mean, they’re perfectionist, and they will kill themselves making something perfect and never do anything half assed. And so that would, that’s exactly contrary to what I believed.

[JACKIE]:
Wait, what do you mean? Sorry, could you clarify that?

[BRANDY]:
Well, like so, maybe I have a misunderstanding of like, thinking and mind and gut because the ones that I know are just like, it seems like they’re always thinking, they’re always in their head. And so the fact that that’s one of the things that they repress is exactly opposite of what I was thinking.

[JACKIE]:
So like, you can be in your head and also still be repressing that mind center, because that mind center really is about rationalization. And they won’t do that. They won’t rationalize.

[BRANDY]:
That makes sense.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, it’s like, I’m not, I can’t rationalize the fact that this is perfect. Like, because it’s not, it could be better. It could always be better.

[BRANDY]:
I gotcha. I gotcha. I could not make it without ones, like, I work with ones and I’m so grateful I do because I never follow through with stuff or that’s really kind of I don’t, I can’t say never. I’m not very good at the details. I like to fly around a lot and they are very grounding for me. They probably live in constant frustration with me. I think they probably have a lot of resentments against me because they are thorough, and concentrated and precise. And that is almost the exact opposite of me. So I’m very grateful for ones, I love working with ones, I love my ones.

[JACKIE]:
Yeah, the ones in my life are pretty great. And I will say this too, when ones are healthy and stress free, they go to seven. And so just to encourage you, you bring out something in them that allows them to enjoy the everyday moments. So, they’re probably not frustrated with you, they love you.

[BRANDY]:
No, no, they’re pretty frustrated with me a lot of the time, but I enjoy them. And they are fun, and they can be fun, when their stuff is done, when their checklist is finished, like they are funny and enjoyable people to be around. But if that checklist is not finished, and everything’s not exactly how they need it, like, I know, hey, you need to back off Brandy, like, just leave them alone for a little while. So it’s good. This is good information for me because of just working and relationships in general. So I’m grateful for some of the clarifications and stuff. And our next episode is all Q&A. And I have so many questions.

[BILLY]:
We’re gonna bombard Jackie with Q&A.

[BRANDY]:
Yeah, it’ll be good. It’ll be good. So thank you, beta world, for listening and hope that you have gotten some clarity and if not, that is why Jackie is around. So use her, Table for 9 Coaching. Thanks, Jackie.

[BILLY]:
Vist betamalerevolution.com to get $30 off your typing session.

[BRANDY]:
BMR.

[JACKIE]:
Love you, guys.

[BRANDY]:
Love you, Jackie.

[BILLY]:
Are you ready to find freedom to be yourself as a beta male? Do you want permission and tools to be your best beta? Are you ready to join the revolution to find your strength as a beta? If you want to be comfortable in your own skin and be the most authentic beta male, then our free Beta Male Revolution course is for you. Sign up for free at betamalerevolution.com/course.

This podcast is designed to provide accurate and authoritative information in regard to the subject matter covered. This is given with the understanding that neither the host, Practice of the Practice, or the guest are providing legal, mental health, or other professional information. If you need a professional, you should find one.

Beta Male Revolution is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you thrive, imperfectly. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom Podcast, Imperfect Thriving, or Empowered and Unapologetic, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network.

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